I (Michael Roberts) was recently interviewed on my book, The Long Depression, and on other economic ideas, by José Carlos Díaz Silva from the Economics Department of the National University of Mexico (UNAM) where I have been invited next March 2018 to deliver a series of lectures. In the first part of this interview, posted over a week ago, Jose questions me on the basic themes of my book.
JCD: What should be taught about Marxism to the students of economics?
MR: Well, Marxism is a big subject. In my view, Marxism is a scientific analysis of human social relations both historically and conceptually. It explains how human social organization works, how it got like this and offers a view of where it could go. Above all, it is fundamentally based on the view that the history of human social organization up to now has been one of class division (and struggle). Since ‘civilisation’ began, there have been rulers who live off the labour of the ruled and dominate and oppress the many to preserve their wealth and rule. But this social structure is the result of scarcity and the ability of élites to gain control of scarce resources. But now, with technology, a world of abundance and the reduction of toil and labour to the minimum is possible globally. That creates the objective conditions for a different form of social organization based on planning and democracy for all.
What Marxism also argues is that current mode of production and social relations called capitalism cannot deliver on this world of abundance and the end of toil. It is a mode still based on scarcity and class division. And it is a promoter of crises, inequality and wars. But it is not eternal and the best we can do. Capitalism has not always existed and all modes of production come to an end. And indeed it can be dispensed with as the ‘economic problem’ can now be resolved.
Within this view, students of economics need to learn Marx’s theory of value to understand the different forms of class society and the special nature of the capitalist form. Against that, they need to understand the theories of mainstream economics and its heterodox critics so that they can follow the differences with Marxian political economy.
JCD: One of the main concerning of the students is the utility of the knowledge they acquire in the class rooms to get a job. In that perspective, how do we motivate them to study Marxism?
MR: Well, this is understandable. Everybody needs to make a living and if they are not to become capitalists themselves (and nearly all will not), they need a job. The world of jobs is hard even for those with a good education and skills. I have worked in the financial sector for decades and it pays better than nearly any other sector – so it is popular especially among economics students. Obviously it is easier to do a white-collar ‘professional’ occupation in terms of physical effort and working conditions etc. But even then, the stress can be high – long hours, deadlines, lack of job security, dependence on bonuses etc. Alienation, as Marx called it, applies there too. So students should know that ‘making a living’ is only one part of life and it is mainly toil.
Moreover, if they want things to be better for them and their children, they need a better economy, a better world without war, poverty and nature etc with less hours of toil and more hours for real creative development. Marxism can explain how things are and why, what can happen next and also how things could and should be better.